Transcript for S1E9

Pat McMahon [00:00:02] This is part two of a conversation with Amy Yoshitsu and Michelle McCrary. Part one is available to listen and can be found wherever you are now listening to part two.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:00:16] I feel like we would have been friends in writing our thesis.

Michelle McCrary [00:00:20] What was yours?

Amy Yoshitsu [00:00:21] Well, it was a lot of it was very large scale sculptural sculptures. But I also did a zine, and it was about a lot of things, including I was studying a lot about punk culture, and that was a lot of what my writing at the time was about. And that was like a big part of my life and I think still is a big part of my identity. But that was what I was like academically and socially very interested in at the time.

Michelle McCrary [00:00:41] That's right. Because you said that you're straight edge. And I've always been fascinated by straight edge culture. You know, in my listening to music, I for sure had like a punk phase. I was definitely into like Fishbone and Dead Kennedys and all that stuff. And yeah, that whole the punk culture is so fascinating to me. It's really yeah, it's super fascinating. And especially the West Coast punk scene is super fascinating.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:01:16] That's interesting because I never I think because of my identity and my personal experiences, I never connected with the West Coast punk scene. And when I was like, when you bring up the Dead Kennedys, like, I went to high school. And I think it's still the case that kids who go to the high school that I went to, wear dead Kennedy shirts like there are a faction, like there's the kids who are the Misfits or the kids who wear the Dead Kennedys shirt. And so it is like but those kids are not necessarily the people who I would be friends with or who, like, I would relate to. And so when I went to the East Coast, I met a whole group of women who were very academic in some ways and some who are not and who are very into empathy and culture building and like the punk scene. And then I was like, Oh, I found my place in it. And I think that experience really grounded me in like feeling connected. And I had like, it's still. The'yre all white women. And so it was still like there was still a disconnection that I was always very aware of but like could not put into my consciousness or allow my conscious to really grapple with at the time. And one of the books that I love I was doing research with during that time was this book called Pretty and Punk. And it really helped me understand the piece about gender and the punk scene and like also straight edge culture and masculinity, femininity and being vegan and vegetarian, etc.. And so like that's the time also when I became vegetarian and was very much like, this is a ideology that I can that I can, I can get with. Like I think also coming from a background, not a lot of material or financial resources, I was like, this is a way that I can be proud to not be poor. Like, that was a really big piece about it. About class.

Michelle McCrary [00:02:56] Yeah, yeah, I hear that. Yeah. Wow. I didn't even think about it like that.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:03:03] Proud to be poor. Sorry. I said it wrong.

Michelle McCrary [00:03:06] And do you feel that there are subcultures like that any more? I mean, maybe I'm just like, I don't know, a crusty Gen Xer. I feel like that felt so, you know, you describing that experience and me thinking about like all of the kind of musical genres I never was really like in a quote scene. And I think that kind of speaks to what I'm coming to understand as like. Who I am is kind of like a radical bridge builder. Like I never, never, like, really in something, but I'm like across many different realities.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:03:50] Yep.

Michelle McCrary [00:03:51] So. Yeah. So I. I wonder if kids have that experience now, you know? I don't know.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:04:00] I hope so. I hope so. I mean. Yeah, I mean, do see Mirrored Fatality there out there shout out to that who we love. Yeah. And I mean they're they're doing it so. I hope so and I think so.

Michelle McCrary [00:04:11] Yeah, you're right. You're right. And that is why I really gravitated toward them. Um, you know, when I was working on the Artist in residence program at Esalen because I was like, Oh, I know this, I know. I know what they're trying to do. Yeah. Very clear to be who they were.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:04:34] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:04:34] And like what they were trying to do. And it was obviously in a totally different context, but it was very familiar and I was so excited about it. I was just like, Yes, yes, yes, yes, oh, to all of it. So shout out to Mango and Summer. I love both of them. Yeah.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:04:57] Yeah. I definitely wish that they were around or that they're more people like that when I was like coming up in that age. I think as you were talking about like masculinity and patriarchy in the music industry. I mean, I could talk about that for a long time, but I can talk about my personal experience in that. Like in the punk scene. I mean, I would say I was at the fringes of and I think race played a big role in that. But the hierarchy was the people who were the musicians and usually they were white dudes and that, you know, what's that? What's there say? Like what's what's one's place, if you could never really attain that. And so I'm so excited that they're out there doing it. And I hope and think more young people, especially femmes and gender nonconforming people of color are. So that's great. And one of my favorite bands right now is a punk band in Singapore.

Michelle McCrary [00:05:46] Oh, I love that. That's awesome. Yeah. I feel like I need to be find some ways to get new music. Yeah. And I can't even remember now. It's like, how do kids get new music? Was like, Oh yeah, YouTube and.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:06:02] I use Bandcamp.

Michelle McCrary [00:06:03] Oh, Bandcamp, I haven't used that. Yeah, I, I, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. And it's, I think a lot I used to get a lot of my new music from just going to the record store and I think it's, that whole experience has been truncated. But there yeah, but there are still a couple of places hanging on. I'm grateful for them. But I wanted to ask you something about not only your experience kind of in, you know, the punk scene being an Asian woman. But like as you move through that world, work, like what? How were those experiences parallel? Because I feel like, again, it's all systems. It's like.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:06:52] Yeah, it is, it is. And hierarchies.

Michelle McCrary [00:06:55] So yeah, so like a cultural system and, you know, cultural system inside of the corporate environment.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:07:05] Yeah. I mean, many directions that I can speak to on that. The first thing that comes to mind is the word performance. I think when I started, well, I guess like kind of going from being really committed to the punk scene in that the, like that saying like punk saved my life. Like that's a popular saying. That I had this idea at the time that I was like really focused on my art practice. I was in college and really committed to the punk scene and that I there wasn't necessarily room to go down both roads fully like that, that I was very aware that like art was more there was this like class component of art that was like rich people buy this and that you're invested in this like academic institutional thought and that to go down fully the road of being punk, either means to be very entrenched in activism or being a musician or being very like off the grid of traditional material needs in some ways. And for many ways I think because of the family came from etc., like that was not really an option for me for in a lot of ways. And so and not that art was like a great option because it's extremely challenging and also insecure. But I was like, okay, well this is what I want to do. But eventually when I came back home and I started like I had just had to get a job, I did then have this experience of performance that was familiar in that I had to become a different person at my job, that had to like I was just thinking so much about like how I started dressing differently and trying to perform something that was especially more feminine that than I really, I really comfortable now that I don't have to go to an office and don't have to be around that type of hierarchy that puts me more in a gendered category that I think was really uncomfortable. But at the time I was telling myself, like, this is what you have to do. Like, this is like growing up and like doing things that are hard and painful to do these things. And I think there's also like, and I always thought of in the punk space that there was also some level of performance I had to do because I wasn't in the traditional body of someone who has authority. There was a level of like faking it and like having to look like you adhere to a certain level of values or ideas or knowledge, whether or not that was my personal experience. And so I think both around there was a lot of performativity, which I have a lot of negative feelings about.

Michelle McCrary [00:09:28] Yes. And we have talked about that. And you just brought up, whoo so many things. So what you kicked off for me is that bridging between this like identity and like experience of that's really like a huge part of who you are. That comes from this music scene, right? And then you find yourself having to quote, you know, be responsible and get a real job, as are the demands of capitalism. And then you totally have to become a different person. And so that kind of brings me back to, you know, what we were talking about, about Converge and the idea of the podcast and bringing your full self to work. Like you couldn't bring your full self to work. And, and in my case, I thought that, oh, if I'm working for like MTV and like it's music, I could totally bring my full self to work. Not really. Not really. There is that same kind of performance of like dress. And, you know, they tell you all that stuff about, oh, you know, dress for the job that you.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:10:44] Yeah, yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:10:46] Imitate the, the, the executive that you want to be and all that other stuff. So it's all such a dirty lie, you know, you can't bring your full self. You know, I always say, well, I've found a way to crack the code and bring my full self, but there's still a certain kind of performance to it. You know, I mean, yeah, bless you if you you can take up space fully as who you are in those corporate spaces. But I feel like they're very regulated. I feel like there is a there's always a performance of wealth and class.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:11:23] Yes.

Michelle McCrary [00:11:23] That goes along with that. Yeah. And I and I feel like even though I was working this, like. Looser kind of creative environment. There was still that performance of race and class and the expectations of the larger system. Inside of all of that. Yeah. Yeah, that. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's wild out there.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:11:53] And like when you came upon that also going to boarding school, maybe you'd already like you. It had trickled down at that point. When you came upon that, did you. What was your reaction? Did you like go into it and try to lean into it a little bit at first and then realize no. Or were you always like, I know who I am and I'm not going to end up climbing the ladder because of X, Y, Z?

Michelle McCrary [00:12:16] Um. I think that. As much as I could. I retained the sense of who I was.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:12:28] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:12:29] Which was always like a weirdo, you know? So, like, there was like a lot of people doing, like, hacky sack and like listening to the Grateful Dead and stuff. And I was like, Yeah, that's not my thing. I was like, I don't like this music. I was like, full on. I was coming off of my like, I was still very much in my, like, full rock phase. I was like into Soundgarden. I was into the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and I was like, so, you know, into, like, Fishbone and Living Color and all that stuff. And like, you know. Yeah. So I like I stuck to that in that way. But there were still like. Performances that you had to do there.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:13:27] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:13:27] Like we had to wear like uniforms once a week for like this formal sit down dinner. And they were like these Laura Ashley uniforms. It's like, what is this? What is. It was like a vestige from some other weird time, you know? It was like, What is this? So, you know, you you you do have elements of that environment in that culture. But I think I was always like twisting against it. And I also have a big mouth, especially when I feel like things are not right. Or unjust. And I was very quick to open my neck and I remember getting into it with a teacher there because there was some project I was doing and I feel I picked like Paul Robeson and they had like some challenge around that. And I remember telling my parents and it was like a thing and it was just like, Yeah, so I feel like I always butt up against it. Yeah. And in the workplace too, I butt up against it and I realized very quickly as like, I don't want to climb anything? You know, and it was hard because that feeling always made me feel like a failure.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:14:48] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:14:48] Like I was not doing it right. Like I had all this fancy, expensive education.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:14:53] Me too.

Michelle McCrary [00:14:54] Why am I not the SVP of all things?

Amy Yoshitsu [00:14:56] Me too.

Michelle McCrary [00:14:58] And it didn't matter to me. And it still doesn't matter to me. And, you know, I just. I want to work with people that I like and respect and make a decent wage so that I can eat and pay for my housing and spend time with the people I love and like, you know, have adventures and live a rich full life that doesn't include, you know, shucking and jiving for our check. And maybe that's really naive and maybe that's, like, unrealistic. But yeah, I just. I'm not interested. I'm not interested. It's not because I'm not ambitious, and it's not because I don't have the capability. It's just like I don't want to do it like that and I don't want to. And my ambition is to live a full, embodied life. My ambition is not to, like, dress like some person that I can, like, imitate their are a lot in life and you know, and no shame to people who do that. God bless you. God bless you. It's just not my thing. And it it, you know, taking a lot of therapy and a lot of healing work to be okay with myself and be okay with, you know, that's not my path. It's not for me. It's not. It's not. It's not for me.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:16:34] I really hear that. Yeah. Did the experience of going to that boarding school then make it more familiar when you encounter that in the workforce?

Michelle McCrary [00:16:49] I. I feel like. Yes and no. I feel like I still didn't have a lot of the words, even though I took a lot of, like, you know Black Studies or as they called it. So I'm dating myself. Africana studies. You know, I had that theory, but it was like for me that theory and practice was not like clicking, you know. And I think there are some pieces to. Just trying to survive that you that I internalize that I didn't really think about it and it's like you were saying it's like I have to do X, Y and Z just to get through this.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:17:36] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:17:36] I have to suffer through this bullshit just to get through this. And there were like experiences that I had that it was very clear that, you know, if it was a choice between me and my hyper competence at what I did in that corporate space, and a white woman who was just okay. They were going to go with the just okay white woman. And that became clear over and over. And the ways that certain kinds of looks and, you know, don't get into like the sizeism and the fatphobia and the colorism and all those pieces. Like all those pieces that I feel like I didn't really have the language for. Like, I wasn't reaching for that language to, like, define my experience.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:18:34] Mm hmm.

Michelle McCrary [00:18:35] And maybe a lot of other people were. But I feel like the people who had that kind of, like, advanced political knowledge or have or were like putting those pieces together in their own lives. Um. I got the sense that. They figure it out some way to like, quote, play the game.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:19:02] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:19:03] You know, and I'm never very good at playing the game. I'm terrible. Like, I'm terrible. Eventually I fuck it up. Eventually I sabotage myself. Yeah.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:19:15] Yeah. I can relate to that. Yeah. Yeah. I can see you thinking.

Michelle McCrary [00:19:30] Yeah, I'm just reflecting on all that. Yeah. So. And. And I also feel like I'm in my work, in healing myself. I'm giving myself permission to grow and transform. And I feel like in this culture, especially when you put it in the context of like career and work and profession, you're supposed to be on this singular track. Or if you're not on this singular track, there's, like, this narrative of. Shifting gears and switching careers and shifting and like. It just. Yeah. I think I'm really giving myself permission to just question everything in a way that I never did. And I really feel, like, better late than never. So I feel like I was questioning it in some ways. But the questioning turned into a lot of acting out and a lot of like, you know. I'm very much like that. I think about that Viola Davis gif where she, like, packs up she picks up her briefcase and rolls her eyes as she goes.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:20:51] Yes.

Michelle McCrary [00:20:51] That's very much the energy that I have for good or for ill. You know.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:20:58] And do you? Yeah. And do you feel like the questioning period being now comes after. Oh, I tried to do the game etc. for X years and now I know it's not for me and it could only be now that I am going to act upon this questioning.

Michelle McCrary [00:21:19] I think it's a process of getting older. And like. Just at some point just being like, I don't want to do this. I'm tired. The clock is ticking.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:21:33] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:21:34] And then I think having kids really, really like that experience of. Being hit with the ways that. Parenting and especially mothering, you know, and and not say like. Mothering in the sense that if you are a mother and whatever body you inhabit. It's not supported. And and I had this really visceral experience of feeling like. I was I was not having any part in raising my child. I wasn't having any part of having like a relationship. I was like, you know, traveling and rushing off and leaving her with a babysitter and, you know, all these things that you have to shift to to do. Instead of feeling like you can find the support to just like, you know. Take care of your family and center like shepherding this human life.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:23:01] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:23:02] I really felt that sense that I had to choose that a lot of women do. And that's and that's like a systemic thing. But I feel like we as a society kind of put it into this box of like either you make the decision to become childless and free or you make a decision to become a breeder and, like, take your chances.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:23:27] Yep.

Michelle McCrary [00:23:27] It's not like an expansive choice.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:23:32] Exactly.

Michelle McCrary [00:23:32] It's not you know, it's not like it's not like you could do you have the freedom to do whatever you want to do with your body. And that's okay. It becomes like a binary. It becomes like a, you know, and this I feel like this system forces that. The system creates that. So I think that period of questioning really came with like, holy shit, there's this whole other life that I'm responsible for right now. And nothing, nothing feels like it's supporting this and supporting me in this endeavor, you know? And there's all these narratives of how can you have it all and can you do this? And none of it's rooted in basic care. None of it's rooting in like how do you have a healthy society and a healthy community that supports kids and their development and their growth? It's just this series of choices that you have to make that feel very much like either or.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:24:41] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:24:43] And they're also defined by the level of privilege you have to, like access childcare in a certain way. To be able to be the, quote, career woman.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:24:58]  I agree.

Michelle McCrary [00:25:01] I think that's really, you know, cliche as it may be, that gave me pause because I felt responsible. I was like, I feel responsible for creating an environment where I'm fully engaged in this process with this little person who is far more interesting than anybody in the office. No shade. There a lot of people that I loved and came to have really great relationships that I still have today. But as they all know, because most of them met my daughter. Yeah, she's the queen. Very special. Yeah. And the same with my son. When he came along, I was already in deep in the process, and I was like, okay, here's this other loon. And the time that I spend with them is like.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:25:57] Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that's the thing that I think about a lot I've thought about my whole life. It's wild that we spend so much time, like in traditional work situations with people who we did not choose. We may not like. We have nothing to say to. And that is like your life. Your hours goes to that social environment.

Michelle McCrary [00:26:18] Yeah. And that and that social pieces around it too are really hard. You know, again, talking about performance. It's like, again, the lie is it's like, oh, go for those after work drinks. Because that, quote, magic happens. Not for me, not for me. It didn't it didn't happen. And again, that's for me. There are a lot of people who are out in the world and they're succeeding in this environment. And they went to the drinks and they were on the softball team and they, you know, played the game and, you know, they made the choice. But it wasn't for me. And I really like I said, I continue to do a lot of work around being okay with that and being like, Yeah, you know, okay with my choices. And at the end of the day, when I do, when I think about my kids and I think about this life that I don't know what it's going to be that I'm trying to cultivate, you know? Being more control in control of my time and trying to create my own reality. In these cracks, you know, and I have a lot of privilege and I have a lot of help doing that. But yeah, all I ask is just it just I really am committed to living my life on my terms and prioritizing just something beyond just work and making money and like. The shininess of. The accolades of success as defined by the society. You know.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:28:22] Yeah. And I. I'm with you in acknowledging that there are people out there who are feeling fulfillment and, like, achieving what they want in a personal level by going to those drinks or being on that softball team. But I they're also a people who, as we both know, are doing it because they cannot lose that job. They have to continue to like be in the situation and they don't really want to. Exactly. Exactly. And that like the for both of us wanting to live our lives the way we want to. That's, I think, what a lot of people want. Like most people do want that autonomy and that control over their particular, like, life situation and the family that they put a lot of money and bodily resources into making. So it's it is. It's systemic. It's super systemic, in my view.

Michelle McCrary [00:29:12] Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And I think a lot of the work that I've been trying to do is just, you know, being okay with my choices. And not judging myself through the lens of the outside world. For making these choices.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:29:35] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:29:36] Because I when I really sit down and think about it, I'm really grateful to even be here, to even. Thinking through this stuff and finding people like you and finding other people who are also thinking about the same things and trying to create something new, trying to create a different reality, a supportive reality for people to just just be able to be. Have it be okay. Just be just be. You know, you don't have to have. It's okay that you're just breathing. That's good. That's great. That's good enough. You know, you don't need any, you know. Bona fides.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:30:29] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:30:30] External validations. Um. Exceptionalism. You could just say you're just here and that's great. It's it's a miracle that you're here.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:30:44] I agree.

Michelle McCrary [00:30:46] Just be here.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:30:48] Yeah. We would've strayed so far from, like, a human centric society.

Michelle McCrary [00:30:54] Yeah. I just see, like, a life centric society. Like, we don't even have any respect for life, you know? Right. We don't have any respect for the water. It's. That's living

Amy Yoshitsu [00:31:04] Exactly.

Michelle McCrary [00:31:05] The animals in the water. The animals on the land, animals in the sky. Like, we have no respect for that. Like we. And we're so disconnected from it. You know, and again, it's all defined in the concept of ownership.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:31:21] Exactly. Private ownership.

Michelle McCrary [00:31:23] Trying to like control and dominate and shape the land externally. And this way that's extractive and not. It's not generative. Like.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:31:36] Exactly.

Michelle McCrary [00:31:37] Just. Yeah. And I think. I think broadly. Not only with COVID, but I feel like this this way of existing is coming to a head.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:31:49] I hope so. Yeah

Michelle McCrary [00:31:50] I hope so. I just I think there are a lot of people who are just really committed to it.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:31:58] Yes.

Michelle McCrary [00:31:58] But I also feel like there are a lot of people who are the ones who are the most vulnerable, are feeling like pinched by it. You know.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:32:10] I agree. I mean, most people are. The the migration, the war, the droughts, the environmental disasters. It's very it's I don't know. I mean, that's, I guess, why dystopias so popular now? Because people who create that see that the commitment is going to lead us to that path.

Michelle McCrary [00:32:30] Yes.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:32:31] And that there's so much fear around, like the failed utopianism of the 20th century ideals that like I don't know. It's interesting that, like, it's so to me so much as such pure dystopia. I think Station Eleven, sorry this is getting kind of into the TV realm, but like so much of it was kind of beautiful the way they portrayed that in the show. But I don't know. Yeah, I've so like there's so much dystopia because I think of that commitment and no one is even talking about like, this is what it would look like to not go down that path.

Michelle McCrary [00:33:04] Yeah. And I wonder if we even have the tools. Sometimes it's like, how much of this, how much of this, this poison will we continue to carry with us and not be healed from it? But I'm really into again, talking about TV.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:33:24] Yeah, yeah go. Let's go.

Michelle McCrary [00:33:26] Really into their new Star Trek series, Strange Worlds.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:33:33] I have not watched it at all, but tell me about it.

Michelle McCrary [00:33:35] Oh, it's good. It's so good. It's really good. But there is like this point where there's this other species called Illyrians who had genetically modified themselves. And it's against federation rules to genetically modify. And so I won't spoil it. But there was a moment in this, the show, when the doctor who is amazing, forgetting the doctor's name, but he's like the doctor. He's basically like the Bones. And he's just being like, you know, we came up with other ways of kind of separating and stigmatizing each other even after, you know, we we live through. They call it like the Third World War and like the Second Civil War. And in this universe like that has happened on earth. And they bring it into the context of like, you know, all the stuff that we're experiencing now. That was the point where we totally self-destructed. And then out of that comes this new reality of the Federation, but even still inside of that. They managed to hang on to some of those prejudices and be prejudiced against this species of people who, for their own reasons, decided to genetically modify themselves. Yeah, it's deep. It's so good. It's. Yeah. Shout out to Star Trek.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:35:18] I have to check that out. Yeah. So interesting. And so do you feel like that Aftermath is is dystopian or do you feel like it gives you hope or, you know, without spoiling it? That it's realistic.

Michelle McCrary [00:35:30] I've been really thinking a lot about what apocalypse means and what this whole idea of an end of the world means. And I've been thinking more of it about in terms of like the end of one kind of reality that could hopefully birth something else.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:35:50] Yeah.

Michelle McCrary [00:35:50] So I think everything has an ending. Everything is like the world works in a cycle, the natural world works in a cycle and cycles come to an end and move into a new cycle. Yeah. So I've been trying to think about it like that. Yeah. Like, this is just a cycle. A vicious, self-inflicted cycle that's got to come to an end.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:36:24] I agree.

Michelle McCrary [00:36:25] And I really hope that people. Who are just yearning for another way to live. In some kind of harmony. That centers all life and a real relationship with the earth. I hope that, you know, we're creating the tools for the folks after they come out of that. Yeah.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:36:58] Yeah. I mean, I hope we do. I hope that's I don't know. I think that's what's scary to people is the end of a cycle. Is that the end of a cycle involve mass death, involve violence, or just involves like change. And humans are so afraid of change and like your daily routine being changed in some way or your context being changed in some way. But I mean, I don't know. I think we're here together right now because we're really looking for some kind of change. And I hope that we can do part of that? Or do something?

Michelle McCrary [00:37:31] Let's quote Miss Butler. The only lasting truth is change.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:37:36] Yes.

Michelle McCrary [00:37:37] That's it.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:37:40] Our producer is telling us that we're coming to an end. That's good.

Michelle McCrary [00:37:50] Oh, my God. He's adorable. Okay.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:37:57] Isn't he?

Michelle McCrary [00:37:57] Oh, my gosh, between you and Louis, I can't even handle it.

Amy Yoshitsu [00:38:02] Aren't they so cute?

Michelle McCrary [00:38:03] I can't handle it. It's too much

Amy Yoshitsu [00:38:05] I know.

Pat McMahon [00:38:07] Bring Your Full Self is put together through the collective effort of the members of Converge Collaborative. Special thanks today to Amy and Michelle and to you for listening. If you're interested in learning more about our group or work or would just like to say hi, you can reach us by emailing Converge at Converge Collaborative dot com or on Instagram at Converge Collaborative.